tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1528294268467777561.post3168841479825149596..comments2018-07-16T12:50:17.790+10:00Comments on Big Adventure in Tradition: KIKO'S DEFORMED VISION (FINALE): A PRIEST-LESS CHURCHGlaucon Jrhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12802239323211056159noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1528294268467777561.post-3402588598722964332017-09-24T18:00:33.332+10:002017-09-24T18:00:33.332+10:00All this talk about power ,consent ,contracts and ...All this talk about power ,consent ,contracts and government.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1528294268467777561.post-85113838147427310222016-09-15T12:41:51.542+10:002016-09-15T12:41:51.542+10:00Timothy,
There is no judgment here, so there is n...Timothy, <br />There is no judgment here, so there is no need to cite the Sermon. Dissimulation is a tactic used to draw out one's interlocutor, and I have no problem with it (in that context) as a way of getting to the truth, not in winning a debate. It's only disappointment that you might be inclined to do so with me. <br /><br />But as you will. Since comments are far too small to give adequate treatment, I'll do a short post by tomorrow morning (tonight if time allows after home duties). Peace. Glaucon Jrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12802239323211056159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1528294268467777561.post-84005046338013295742016-09-15T12:37:01.462+10:002016-09-15T12:37:01.462+10:00Dear Glaucon,
If I disappear into the night, it...Dear Glaucon,<br /> If I disappear into the night, it is because my follow-up comments were reviewed and deemed unacceptable by the blog administrator. I am not one to disappear, but like the Scarlet Pimpernel, will appear now here, now there. <br /><br />Furthermore, if you judge me (cf. Mt. 7, 1 and following) as a dissimulator, then judge me, with St. John Chrysostom of the Tradition, with mercy, compassion and forgiveness, for this is the measure by which you, I presume, wish to be judged.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16437625683522270930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1528294268467777561.post-52680125046584030982016-09-15T12:12:01.694+10:002016-09-15T12:12:01.694+10:00Why, what a delightful request, although I know pe...Why, what a delightful request, although I know perfectly well this request--coming from you in particular--is not one of a gadfly but rather of one who likes to be Socratic and rattle his interlocutor on the off-chance he hasn't done his homework, yet who then disappears into the night once the case is made. Hence, the would-be dissimulation, which is a little disappointing since I know perfectly well that you know what I mean. <br /><br />Even so, I'll be happy to oblige when I get home from work and settle in. Have a fine day.Glaucon Jrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12802239323211056159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1528294268467777561.post-66735366845992456592016-09-15T12:01:56.768+10:002016-09-15T12:01:56.768+10:00Dear Glaucon,
To follow you in detail, I would...Dear Glaucon,<br /><br /> To follow you in detail, I would like very much for you to provide an example from a Vatican II document which "explains" in "modern language" using "ambiguity of phrase, equivocal terminology and a fluid vocabulary that allows for all kinds of interpretation." Such a citation would help a lot. Thank you in anticipation.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16437625683522270930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1528294268467777561.post-56514822024668941072016-09-15T03:45:26.051+10:002016-09-15T03:45:26.051+10:00That would seem to be the case, but why do both th...That would seem to be the case, but why do both the "traditionalist" Catholics and "progressive," modernist Catholics both claim Vatican II was a radical break? <br /><br />Benedict XVI worked hard on the problem while at the CDF and proposed that there's an inner continuity. With all respect, I don't see it as continuous, but not because of an actual "change" in doctrine.<br /><br />I don't see doctrine having changed, but rather "explained" in "modern language" (as though we didn't understand before). That involved ambiguity of phrase, equivocal terminology and a fluid vocabulary that allows for all kinds of interpretation. By doing this, they opened all kinds of doors that culminates in the "making" of a new Mass, rather than making small adjustments, as has been done in the past. Glaucon Jrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12802239323211056159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1528294268467777561.post-74859000316321753942016-09-15T00:16:15.575+10:002016-09-15T00:16:15.575+10:00Either Vatican II changed doctrine or it did not. ...Either Vatican II changed doctrine or it did not. If it did, it is not a valid council and should be ignored. If it did not, there should be no problem in adhering to the doctrine of the Church as presented before Vatican II.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1528294268467777561.post-26127595662952022402016-09-14T22:25:29.721+10:002016-09-14T22:25:29.721+10:00Correction: I misspoke. When I said above " t...Correction: I misspoke. When I said above " to condemn the Council would be to condemn the driver's license exam for someone's bad driving," that should read:<br /><br />"to condemn the Council would be to condemn the requirement for a driver's license exam for someone's bad driving."<br /><br />It the exam is vague, off-point, and taught by someone not qualified, that would certainly explain bad driving. Glaucon Jrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12802239323211056159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1528294268467777561.post-85067141259937292562016-09-14T22:22:06.591+10:002016-09-14T22:22:06.591+10:00Thank you for your comment. I am not part of the S...Thank you for your comment. I am not part of the SSPX or any other schismatic group, and I certainly don't condemn Vatican II. On the contrary: the problem with V2 is the profoundly vague language used in the documents--language which gave bishops all kinds of room to demonstrate this betrayal that was already simmering underneath. A very small example: the minute the Novus Ordo went into effect, quite literally overnight priests stopped saying Mass ad orientam. Just because. That wasn't part of any reform. And bishops led the way. <br /><br />No sir, to condemn the Council would be to condemn the driver's license exam for someone's bad driving. Rather, I'm trying to see the problem for what it is. <br /><br />To your example: the anaphora, or Eucharistic Prayer, that you refer to is B, particularly before the 3rd Edition of the Missal. I didn't say it was heretical, and it is valid because the words of consecration are there. But there can be no doubt that the language of B is so profoundly different from the Roman Canon as to see very little resemblance, and the key and substance of the changes are the Sacrificial. That use by Kiko exclusively don't prove my point, but it certainly demonstrates it well. Glaucon Jrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12802239323211056159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1528294268467777561.post-28506280150060575662016-09-14T17:54:19.303+10:002016-09-14T17:54:19.303+10:00I mostly agree; but you exagerate condemning - eve...I mostly agree; but you exagerate condemning - even if you avoid to tell this - the 2° Vatican Council. Also condemning all of it is an heresy. I hope you dont belong to the extremist bishops who left the comunion with the Catholic church (Lefèvre). <br />We cannot know if history will lead us to a scism. I fear so. It is not the first one. Let us do everything possible to avoid it, until the center of our faith, the sacrifice of Crist Jesus and his resurrection is not toched by the Pope and must bishops.<br />I give one exampel of your exageration: Many of the anaforas recomandeted are ortodox, I mean catholic, not heretical. Heretical is the second one, and this is the reason why Kiko and Carmen introduced it in the NCW as the only one to be proclaimed. The reason: it only slightly in a little word alludes to the sacrifice of Jesus. This is also the reason why Kiko "composed" the music for this Anafora, so that NCW members for all their lives only here the Second Canon, in kikotical version.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14147478848473500784noreply@blogger.com